[quote=&quot;enoch84&quot;]Here's the list of players I've [u:1f668a080e]wondered [/u:1f668a080e]about.  In my mind these guys are either pro or haxors (minus Carnage and Raptor).

Carnage52 (bot/radar) - agreed
RaptorKC (bot/radar) - agreed
H4X0RX (bot) - Don't think bush bots
Random54 (radar) - possibly but I haven't played with him enough to say one way or the other.
Jetspandex (bot/radar) - Neither,  IMO I just don't feel he does
Legionz (bot/radar) - Haven't played with him enough
i_hax (bot) - Don't think he does
Veremouth (bot) - Don't think ED does,  he is like gab is bad ping great hitscan.
Silkz (bot) - I think he did at one point early on in the game,  but actually put the time in and got good and stopped.

The list can easily include just about everyone, even those who we've all ready decided are legit.  Unreal looked bottish a few times.  Also the Santas and Fatballs.  I think even eMac looked like a bot once or twice.  It's impossible to tell now.  

Just look what Carnage showed me.  These are the settings for the aimbot part of his hack:

AutoAim=3
PartAim=2
AutoFire=1
AimAngle=0
Angle=45
FireDelay=1
TriggerBot=2
OnPressKey=2

See that shit?  You add all that up and you got an incredibly sneaky bot.  In fact, like I've said, I couldn't actually see any twitch when Carnage shot.  People need to realize that.  Not all botters are going to twitch.  I saw Carnage rape Paperplate with the shock rifle on a duel map (Bonescraper), but he never twitched once.  He said if he turned up the settings he would twitch though.[/quote]


I commented on your list.  And vctf definitely has weapon skill,  like you said enoch playing anarchy/arena/feelgood over and over forces you to learn that and we put the time in and learn to do shit like jump boot combos.  It doesn't bother me if DM guys say vctf is for nubs at all,  I think out of all the objective gametypes its the hardest to play and play well.  Warfare is more complicated with good players but the skillset is lower there by far,  if you took both communities and let them play the other gametype for a few months and then took the best players and pitted them against each other vctf would crush warfare easily.  But then again half the vctf community plays warfare. Oh well getting off that rant.

I have started playing 2k4 again enoch,  and of course i have TAM.  Which server do you play on and what name do you usually go by? I'll add you to my friend list, right now I my name is I-iz-horrible as I want it to be known to not expect shit out of me lololol.  I just got done playing a little while ago,  though its gonna take me a while to adjust my mouse settings and get used to the floaty movement again,  but it will come back easy its like riding a bicycle.